April 22, 2008
Mean temp: 15.6 degrees Celsius
In a recent interview, I had the opportunity to sit down and chat with Urban Developer, Gary Switzer; Executive Vice President of Great Gulf Homes. I must say, it was a thrill to have some insight on the world of development, respectively, through an urban developer’s eyes and to get a feel and understanding of the daily tasks at hand.
Gary is a unique person; he has qualities that you might not think a developer would have yet he cares deeply about the preservation, unification as well as the progression of Toronto’s development, in becoming a city with a vision, a passion not just for living among the vibrant and variety of offerings this city presents us with but also a keen eye for what is right for Toronto. With his vast knowledge of Toronto and its past, he has acquired the ability to know where to build and most importantly, what to build.
I’d like to share this conversation with you so please read on and withhold any pre-conceived notions you may have about developers because Gary is a person that is steering the urban realm of development into a direction of soundness, utility and beauty.
Recent Developments:
18 Yorkville; The Hudson; X-Condos (under construction); The Morgan; The St. James, along with many others.
Before we get into it, it would be great if you could tell us a few things about yourself which would help people understand where you are coming from and maybe why you do the things you do of today?
I was always interested in buildings and the city while I was growing up. I even have pictures of the TD Centre under construction taken when I was 12 years old with my Kodak Instamatic! In the last year of high school, I decided that I would go to the School of Architecture at the University of Toronto. After graduation, I worked for Webb Zerafa Menkes Housden Architects for five years on projects such as Scotia Plaza. I took a change of direction in 1985 and accepted a position as a planner at the City of Toronto. It was great experience during a very exciting time.
After a few years, I decided I wanted to get into development and be a developer. I joined Great Gulf Homes in 1987 with the mandate of exploring and developing downtown projects, which very few suburban developers were doing at that point. This led to me to starting the high rise division.
Is there a person from the past that has influenced you or that you particularly appreciate?
Various people have influenced me and encouraged me over my lifetime, ranging from my parents, of course, to particular teachers in high school, to certain professors at University. Probably the greatest influence on me professionally has been from the principals of Great Gulf, with their love of good design and from whom I learned the importance of ethics in business. They also gave me the freedom to “push the envelope” in utilizing new architects and designers and explore new concepts and markets.
What is the best moment of the day for you?
None in particular. Having been in this business over twenty years, it’s clear that I love what I do. There’s little distinction between “work” and “hobbies”. I know this city inside out in terms of its history, its buildings, its streets, that to me actually adding to the beauty and life of the City is one of the most satisfying aspects of my career and I like nothing better than being downtown on weekends (I’d take my dog on walks and visit sales centres at the same time).
The most interesting parts of the job are really the creative aspects in discussing what the building should be. The beginning is always interesting when you have a new site the architect presents his new designs. When the whole world is limitless and full of possibilities! Equally satisfying is visiting the site when it’s under construction, as the form emerges and you take the construction elevator to the top. Finally, the finished building: seeing it as you near the site, at different times of the day and year. I love it!
What kind of music do you listen to and what type of books/magazines interest you?
I would say it’s a combination of classical and jazz. I love vocal music. I have a soft spot for Ella Fitzgerald, Diana Washington, and Sinatra and which also expands to opera, and Broadway. At the same time, I’ve probably worn out k. d. laing’s “Hymns of the 49th Parallel”. As far as books, my house is overflowing with art and architecture books, but I find that novels and particularly mysteries are the best for relaxing. There’s a series of mysteries by Maureen Jennings that take place in the Toronto of the 1890’s, so I get to indulge in both my passions.
How do you feel about the new Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts (COC)?
I love it. I’m a huge fan. We purchased the full complement – all seven operas for the season. The sound is perfect and it’s always a wonderful experience when I am there. Diamond and Schmitt did a great job. Don’t ask me about the ROM, though, which I think is the most disappointing project I think I’ve ever experienced on practically every level.
Do you read design, architecture, development and city planning books? Any favourites?
I read Architectural Design from Britain and Architectural Record from the U.S. These are the main ones in terms of international magazines. The other main source is the web; the different architectural blogs such as Skyscrapercity. I like to see and read what’s happening in different cities.
Some websites seem to have better images of our buildings than we do. When we were knocking down 590 Jarvis to start construction of “X”, someone uploaded it the same day on YouTube.
As far as books, the last architecture book I bought is the latest volume of Robert Stern’s series on New York called New York 2000. Great series.
Where do you get your news from?
I receive the National Post, the Globe and Mail during the week, The Saturday Star, primarily for the Condo Section as well as the Sunday New York Times.
Being on both ends of the business regarding planning, building and architecture, what differences have come about in terms of being on the public side of the business as opposed to the private side, hence, working for the City of Toronto’s Planning Department at one point and an architect in another?
The main part is the satisfaction of creating something. When you’re working in the city, you’re responding all the time. And when you’re working for a large architectural firm, you’re like a cog in a wheel. But as a developer, you have a vision and decide what you want to build and create. It is almost like being an artist and having blank canvas. You know that if you weren’t there, that building wouldn’t be emerging. So this is quite satisfying, seeing it come about.
Of course the first step is looking at the numbers so in terms of the site, zoning, official plan, height restrictions, what can actually be achieved; and then there comes the question as to what architect do we want to use, depending on the look we are trying to achieve.
What are the major differences that you have experienced switching from residential suburban development/planning/construction & design to condo development/planning/construction & design?
I personally never did suburban development because my mandate was always to develop in the City. My own taste is also very urban, of being in a more architecturally interesting and dense environment. To me, the best vacation is a week in major cities and walking for hours.
It seems to me that a lot of residential developers are getting into the condo development game. What drew you into this avenue of the business?
I think the reason they are getting into it now is due to government legislation with the Greenbelt, the Oak Ridges Moraine along with the preservation of the Niagara Escarpment. It’s like there is a doughnut around Toronto that is a ‘no build zone’, so to speak. The Province is encouraging intensification. What is left is expensive and it’s getting harder and harder for a lot of builders, particularly smaller builders to make a living. We end up seeing a lot of newcomers who end up coming downtown and are underestimating the challenges of building downtown and the complexity of costing and construction. I think when we decided to enter the market in the mid 90’s we saw that there was an opportunity to be profitable. I’m not saying that our company was prescient in terms of foreseeing the way of the future with respect to intensification but even back in the mid 90’s, the government’s intents were clear.
Do you see this as a trend? Is there a right reason and a wrong reason for a suburban residential developer to get into this side of the business?
If one looks at the statistics, more condominiums were sold in the GTA last year than single family homes. This is unprecedented, but it also reflects the strength of the Toronto condominium market, which is the strongest in North America. To answer your question, the right reason for a suburban developer to enter the Toronto condo market is to meet a need. The wrong reason, is for them to think it’s easy, and for them to go in unprepared for the complexity of building high-rise in the City.
What would be your dream-site/development project?
[Laughs] Personally, I like projects in great neighbourhoods, that involve history; that are improving what you have, that when you leave the site, you have actually created something that has added to the area and, not to sound too altruistic, not just taking but you giving back to the City in a sense.
For example, when we did The Saint James in 1996 at King and Jarvis, it was a parking lot; one of the most historic sites in Toronto; it was vacant and building down there was like building in Berlin after the wall came down. It was like stitching a city back together again and I found that incredibly satisfying. I drive by the corner and think, well; I did that and helped put that corner/area back together again.
Do you share your views with the local architects/city planners and designers and what sort of topics/concerns come about during your discussions?
Absolutely; it’s sort of a ying yang thing and gravitate to architects with whom I share their design aesthetic and sensibility. It’s not like I am trying to convince anybody of anything so…there are certain architects that I would not use considering they do not share the same or similar vision that we do from a design point of view.
When I worked in the city, when an application that was put forth from a great architect, you would almost not have to do anything with that application but if you had one from a bad architect, there was nothing you can do to make that building better. You can’t blame the city for everything. In a lot of cases, what can you do if it basically meets all the requirements such as zoning and the official plan?
What does frustrate me at times is that here we are, a firm that has won numerous awards including the two top awards from the City of Toronto itself such as the 2007 Urban Design Awards for Best Tall Building and Mid-rise Building in the last two years for “18 Yorkville” and when we go into the city, its still feels like we are starting from scratch. Sometimes we get advice from Urban Design, from landscape architects who are telling us how buildings should be massed, while the architects that we work with that have won half a dozen Governor General Awards for architecture. We’re sometimes lectured from the “Gospel of Jane Jacobs” as if we had never heard of her before, while I bite my tongue from saying: “Honey, I was reading Jane Jacobs while you were still in kindergarten!” [laughs].
Another thing that is frustrating, notwithstanding innumerable reports and studies on Tall Buildings, is the City’s ongoing inability to deal with the issue. I did a talk about five years ago at the Canadian Urban Institute on Toronto’s fear of heights and did an analysis on how Toronto fear of tall buildings went back to the Reform Movement’s 1970’s battles in St. Jamestown and Quebec/Gothic. (Was it an accident that Crombie’s device to stop development was a 45’ height by-law?). I was asked by Councillor Rae to repeat the talk at City Hall to the Planning Department (remember this was pre-Minto at Yonge and Eglinton and pre-18 Yorkville. Planning was very defensive in saying that it was not a matter of Toronto having a fear of tall buildings but that tall buildings had to be in the right location. Many projects later, the same issues still come up. We have a site downtown which the planners have told us is “too tall” but at the same time refuse to “give us a number”.
As more acute/micro-professions arise throughout this industry, do you see the role of the architect as being the maestro, losing its significance or is the reverse happening?
No, I don’t see the architect as the key person in the project because at the end of the day, it’s the developer who is the maestro. It may be that the architect is the lead violinist or the soloist but ultimately it’s the developer that has to have the total vision (and pay the bills). I think that even architects today don’t see themselves as the prime consultant but as a member of a team. We have to juggle the financial aspects, the municipal aspects, the marketing, the interior design, construction; you can’t count on the architect to be able to focus on all of that.
Which projects have given you the most satisfaction and how?
It’s almost like asking who your favourite child is – it’s somewhat like a cliché when they ask movie stars what was their favourite role or an artist what is their favourite painting. But there is an element, something about each one of them that works well…but I’m also self-critical and feel I could have done something different and better with each building. But going back to Saint James, this was a very satisfying for what it did for the area; 18 Yorkville, as a composition, from an urbanistic point of view, being a slender tower, the Scollard Building, Townhall Square, the historic Library works beautifully; the Hudsonand how it turned the corner of Spadina and King was beautifully handled; the Morgan in relation to the historic factories in the area. It will be interesting when X starts going up as a 44 story tower; that will be pretty thrilling. It’s basically the current project that gives me the most satisfaction, in a sense you are always trying to improve on your last project.
I also enjoy it when we would get well-written articles from the press, for example from John Bentley Mays and Lisa Rochon of the Globe & Mail, from Kelvin Browne in the National Post and from Christopher Hume in the Star (Saint James was I believe his first “A”-rated building).
It was also satisfying when we won GTHBA Builder of the Year for the second time in 2006, same year we won the Tarion High-rise Builder of the Year Award. When we won the OAA award for Architectural Excellence for the Morganfor 2005, (the OAA never gives awards for developer buildings), this was very satisfying; along with the 2006 Design Exchange Award for “X” and the two top 2007 awards for urban design, from the City of Toronto.
Which projects have given you the most dissatisfaction or problems and how did you see and resolve those issues?
It’s probably the earlier buildings only due to inexperience. I know now what to do and not to do in terms of unit design, window placement, exterior facades, colours, etc. In earlier cases I basically went with the flow but knowing what I know now, I can now say we have to do things this way or that way and know enough what works and doesn’t. It’s basically a combination of experience and confidence.
It’s seems that people who are quite diversified in their field seem to know how to get things done or can realize the end product quite effectively and/or efficiently. Do you see yourself as this type of person? Let’s say, a modern-day renaissance person?
I’m somewhat modest to come up with a line like that but I do have a lot of interests and at the end of the day, we do great buildings.
What is your take on the U.S. market/economy of building and construction and do you see any direct or indirect affects on our development economy and if so, how and when?
So far so good; I wish it were better in the States right now. We have two high-rise buildings going on in the States right now in Denver and Dallas, and of course it’s worrisome. Part of being a developer is to be an optimist and I think by very nature, I am an optimist. I think that things go up and things go down and I did live through 90-91 where there were no buildings going up. We were basically building non-profit housing and survived.
Toronto’s market is still good and we hope for it to continue.
What inspired you to develop in the United States, primarily Denver?
When we started working down there a few years ago, certainly the market was better then it is today. We did notice that there was a demand for high-rise living in Denver and Dallas that was not being met in terms of the kind of buildings as well as the number of buildings. The kind of buildings that we are doing in both those cities are similar to the buildings we are doing in Toronto. We basically took our Toronto team down to Denver and adapted to the local aesthetic. Our building in Denver is a 51 story point tower designed by Peter Clewes, with interiors by Cecconi Simone. Denver has never seen a point tower before.
Dallas as well, never really had a culture for high-rise living and given the demographics, young and old, along with not wanting the long drives back to the suburbs, we saw this as an opportunity. We are proposing an extraordinary curved building by Hariri Pontarini in the Turtle Creek area of Dallas and are currently going through municipal approvals.
You seem to be quite a visionary when it comes to development? What’s your secret?
I don’t know if I’m a visionary. I do love Toronto, and I feel strongly that I want to leave the City better than I found it. I think all our buildings contribute to their locations and I hope that we have helped raise the bar architecturally and urbanistically.
What trials and tribulations have you gone through to become who you are today?
I think the greatest trial over the past twenty years was getting through the recession of the early 90’s. Right now we’re going through good times in Toronto which is great, but there’s always the underlying anxiety of the party one day ending. But, one still has to plan for the future especially given that the time periods developing major projects is so long. For instance when we bought the site of X(at Jarvis and Charles) it took about one year to rezone, one year to get pre-sales and will take about three years to build. That’s five years from beginning to end for one building, in which you’re subject to the market in terms sales and construction costs. Not for the faint of heart! I think anyone in this business has to think in terms of the long-haul and that helps
Do you have any advice for people that are trying to enter the world of development/planning and architecture?
Get as much education as possible. Work in various aspects of the industry. You have to love what you’re doing, to put up with the day-to-day frustrations that come with this industry and if you cannot handle this part of the business, then it’s not worth pursuing. You have to focus on the end game – what are you going to end up with? And that’s what makes it all worth while.
Where would you like to see yourself in the near and/or distant future?
Probably somewhere on the Amalfi Coast, God willing, but in short of saying that, continue doing what we are doing. I love the idea of building in other cities. It’s energizing to build in other cities, seeing other cultures.. But on the other hand when you go to New York, Chicago, or San Francisco and you come home, you feel totally revitalized. You also appreciate all the good things Toronto has going for it. Other than that, I want to keep doing what I’m doing for as long as can.
Where, what and how do you see Toronto transforming in the near/distant future?
I think that to some extent, the city is putting more emphasis on architecture but I still think that a lot needs to be done, developers should be given more credit in using good designers and it shouldn’t come down to the what is your GFA, the height of the building or what’s your density but rather than concentrate on the context of the project.
Is there anything that you are afraid of regarding the future?
You can’t be in the business and be a pessimist because this business is about risk and if you’re a pessimist, you will never want to take a risk and this business runs on calculated risk.
What led you to the involvement in the Pug Awards?
Anna Simone asked me!
I think this it’s a good thing. My suggestion was to get rid of the word ‘Pugly’ and just keep it as ‘Pug’. Just shaming developers does not particularly accomplish anything and really it should be seen more as a reward for excellence than trying to do a wall of shame. And I also think the more we talk about architecture in this city, the better it becomes.
What value do you see in this type of awards process?
I think there is value in the Pug Awards because of the fact that it is truly a people’s choice award. I do think the group still has a ways to go in terms of educating the public as to what these awards actually are in comparison to OAA awards or the Home Builders Award because I think the public is not fully aware or understand what the Pug Awards are all about.
What is your favourite building in Toronto – be it residential, commercial, public or institutional?
I’m in City Hall a lot and I do like City Hall. We just had a meeting in the new MARS Building on College Street which is a beautiful project.
My tastes are pretty eclectic: I love the heavy Romanesque Revival of EJ Lennox’s City Hall, the art deco Lawren Harris house Forest Hill, the fantasy of the Wintergarden Theatre. I think we’ve seen some great modern buildings over the last few years: Foster’s and Clewes’ buildings on College Street, Kuwabara’s Sheff House on Glen Road in Rosedale, the McKinsey Building on Charles.
I think the new AGO will be the best of this latest wave.
Overall, in a cohesive nature, what genre, in architectural terms, would you consider Toronto to be classified as or have we reached that point yet to “label” our city?
I don’t think we are at that stage, because I think most North American cities are just a mixture of different styles and different eras and it’s more a question of what is the quality of the individual buildings as well as the quality of the streetscapes…from those era’s as we have some great Victorian neighborhoods, some great Edwardian neighborhoods, residentially.
College, Queen and King, from a shopping, retail point of view . Overall, there are certain views and approaches from our city that make it great, such as driving into the city from Lakeshore or coming down Mt. Pleasant.
How do you see the younger generation playing a key role in urban development? Do you think there is a role and place for them in this facet of development?
Of course. The growth of architecture and urban design web-sites reflect that there is a great deal of interest as to what is happening to their city.
There is a general lack of knowledge – a knowledge gap of history relating to Toronto’s past architecture. As the younger generation move out on their own, they generally want to live downtown and one becomes invested in the area that they live in.
At what age do you think it is appropriate for kids to get involved in the way our city is being transformed? Do you believe they have a voice?
I think that such a thing as age appropriateness is somewhat related to the person’s immediate surroundings. For example, taking a school bus ride and noticing things and places you might not have noticed before, and you start to take interest in them.
I can relate to going on the subway at age 9,10, 11 and 12, heading down to Centre Island with my friends. Nowadays, parents are more nervous to let their kids explore the city as opposed to 30 yrs. ago.
It all depends on what children can grasp and cope with as well.
I can also remember when It would be such an event to see the Christmas decorations and windows on Yonge and Bay. Growing up at Eglinton and Bathurst, it was not a big deal to go downtown for us. Nowadays, kids should be encouraged to go downtown and explore.
What is your opinion on the environmental/sustainable culture/attitude people are embracing these days?
Do you think this will be the new norm or is it just a very long fad come trend?
To a large extend it is a fad and fashionable – notwithstanding scientific reports.
It’s funny because Earth Day started back in the 70’s. Since then, this interest in our environment such as the Clean Air Act and the Great Lakes Clean Up – it more-or-less disappeared.
There will be a form of a fatigue – we are going to do all we can do reduce our carbon footprint so someone can buy a car in China later on – it becomes tiresome – A pendulum effect – which swings between periods of austerity and indulgence.
LEED as a symbol of green correctness is a flawed system.
For someone to build the same building in the downtown core will end up getting only one point extra for if the same building were to be built in the suburbs?
It’s a rough yard stick for developers to relate to and often there is no benefit to the inhabitants. It’s also a major cost factor but having said that, buildings should be built to be environmentally conscious.
If you were given a microphone that would reach all of urban Toronto, what would you say to the community with respects to where we are now and the direction that we should be taking?
Not to get too emotional – but for people to grow up, to get involved with the concerns of the city on a day to day basis. This is still a small town but it likes to think it’s a big city. For example, as you drive down Avenue Road, you see wooden telephone poles in narrow sidewalks which are quite a contradiction in terms of how we like to think of ourselves as a “world-class” city.
It’s always a question of money and where to spend it and priorities. Paris has a budget set aside to light up buildings – you wouldn’t even know the old city hall is there it’s so poorly lit at night.
What disappoints you?
Short-sightedness – small mindedness
What makes you happy?
A good meal with family and friends; when the sun is shining and when you feel good. You don’t appreciate good health until you lose it. Thank God for all the blessings for the good things that we have. Sometimes we take for granted the obvious things in life.
By: Warren Gyulay
As someone fortunate to handle the resale aspects of the great spaces featured on the PUG awards, my clients cannot thank you enough for the creation of these awards.
I know, first hand, the importance of any exposure when marketing a unique property. Even a nomination for an award is a great feature of any building whether it be for the Broadview Lofts (my choice for loft conversion of the decade in Leslieville) or any of the other choices.
Getting 2nd and 3rd owners of properties proud of their building is a great thing and this certainly helps accomplish it.
Keep up the great work!
Paul Indrigo, Sales Rep
Royal LePage Estate Realty
Independently owned and operated.
http://www.LoftSellers.com
http://www.UniqueToronto.com
We appreciate your interest as well as your client’s interest in the PUG Awards as well as their community and the architecture that surrounds them.
We are glad that we can add value and relevance to your clients investments – be sure to participate in our 2009 PUG Awards from May 1-31.